Power Platform Boost Podcast

Guardrails! (#78)

• Ulrikke Akerbæk and Nick Doelman • Season 1 • Episode 78

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Ulrikke:

Will it access a spe uh text-to-speech service and then connect a cello and dial the number at the restaurant and call on on your behalf and edit your voice and make the resteration? Guardrails, guardrails, guardrails, guardrails. The content, the guardrails. It's never been more important. And and this is a very long way of saying. And I'm so happy I have this channel to talk about this because it's so important. Hey Nick.

Nick:

Hey Ulrika, how's it going?

Ulrikke:

It's going well. How are you doing?

Nick:

I'm good, thanks. So here we are back into the regular uh stream of things uh after traveling. Um, of course, our cloud developer challenge. We did the recap on that. That was a lot of fun. And yeah, kind of back into the regular grind of news and updates across the Power Platform and Microsoft and everything else going on. And yeah, and as always, a ton of new things and stuff for us to talk about.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, 100%. And I haven't been this ready to kind of slow down and fiddle with stuff in the apartment and just have everydays days where I just make dinner and then there's an evening, and then you go to bed, then you wake up the next morning and do the same. Because the last month and a half's been absolutely crazy. So just a little bit of cum bayah and getting into this rhythm again as well, just from a normal perspective, back at the home office. Everything's good. So ready to dive in. And we have I we say this every time, it's like we the list is so long. Just okay, hold on to your socks, people, because this is gonna be a wild ride. Um let's start off with the top of the list. Uh, I think this is yours, um, if I'm not mistaken. I think we can both get behind this.

Nick:

Yeah, so the big news that came out this week was code apps are now generally available, or code power apps are generally available. So whoop whoop. Um exciting news. So what first off, I mean, I think for those of you who maybe don't know what this means for code apps, um, I think the best way to explain it is you build a pro code app of sorts. You can build this in Visual Studio Code, um, you can get AI to help you, or you could write it from scratch, depending on what you want to do. And then you basically you upload this app and it uses um, it can use React or Angular or View, but typically if you're if you're kind of vibe coding, it's gonna be React. If you use vibe.powerapps, I think it uses React as a framework. You upload this into Power Apps, and then yeah, your users will interact with this Power App the same as they would a Canvas app or a model-driven app. But the fact that it's written using React components, that framework, or whatever framework you want, and using the connectors, the power platform connectors, you can basically make an app look and feel however you want it to look. So you're not limited by the model-driven apps menu and side and forms or the canvas apps. Even though Canvas apps is pretty flexible, you can still make it look and feel however you want. And so, yeah, but in the some people might say, well, this is a whole new pro code approach. What about the makers? Well, of course, with using these tools, um, the vibe coding tools and using whether you're using GitHub Copilot or I'm starting to use Claude or maybe some other tools, you can begin to use the new, I would say not new, using natural language as low code to build your power apps, um, which is pretty exciting. And I think this is just going to blow the doors off. It's it's gonna change a lot of things. First off, it's gonna give a lot of times when your customers are coming to you and they want very specific, unique things or terms of user interface, these can be addressed. Um, other things that um it's gonna do is I think it's going to sort of Canvas apps are gonna be kind of on their way out. And I know that's a little bit controversial, but I think overall we're not we're gonna see less and less Canvas apps. I still think model-driven apps are going to be there for the long haul just because of their framework, their ease of use, the fact that if you've learned how to do one model navigate one model-driven app, you kind of can navigate all model-driven apps. And the fact that you have generative, generative pages built into model-driven apps as well kind of gives you those specialized user interfaces. So um, all in all, pretty exciting news. The fact that it's generally available means you can upload a support ticket if something goes wrong and Microsoft is obligated to help you out. Um, but yeah, it's it's exciting stuff. To be honest, I haven't really built one of these. I've been most focused on the PowerPages side of things. Um I have been playing with vibe.powerapps, which is still preview, but it also generates code apps, but gives you a nice front end to it. So yeah, what's uh what's your thoughts on this?

Ulrikke:

No, I it's uh it's I'm not a developer first kind of person. So for me, it's a bit cody. But if I get to let item number 52 on my list of things I want to play with, that's definitely there. Um but I also saw that Charles Sexton, he played with it because he has a blog post this week um where he says, in today's video, I'm gonna go through how you can add your database table to your code app and integrate them with your app using AI Agent, and then it all goes wrong. And then he goes on to say all the things that went wrong when he was recording the video, everything went wrong. But then on the fly, using AI tools and kind of his skills and um experience, he solves it and he overcomes those challenges. And we've highlighted content like this. This is our favorite type of content. If you and me had a content type that we like, it's this is the true thing where I'm gonna go off, I'm gonna save the world, watch me crush the roof and then shit and beep off like also showing how you mitigate, how you correct, how you troubleshoot, how you get to the thing. Because we it's never gonna go as a happy path. When you read this perfect world la la la long post where everything goes right, yeah, sure you dude. It doesn't, it never does. So real stuff like this, I absolutely love. So kudos to Charles for daring to and be brave enough to kind of show everything that goes wrong. Sometimes he thinks it us, it's us, more often than not, it's not us. Uh, and so yeah, be brave and put it out there. And I absolutely love seeing that. So uh yeah, very good.

Nick:

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm I'm guilty of that where I I'll put I'll do a video together and things just go completely sideways. So I'll backtrack and re-record and whatever. And like more and more I realize, okay, I just need to just let the camera roll on on something like this, because we all we all go through this, right? Where um yeah, I'll be uh swearing at the computer, like, why is this working? Um uh and then of course then you realize sometimes it's like, oh, this is uh, you know, this is I made a stupid mistake here. Cause I I used to have a thing sticky on my on my monitor, and it said there is always a logical explanation for something. And because sometimes things go so weird, like, okay, Microsoft did an update or somebody did something. Um, or uh, well, this happened last Friday. This little down a little bit of rabbit hole, but I'm working on a project and I'm doing it's actually a PowerPages project. I'm doing some liquid, I'm changing, you know, pulling data, and then all of a sudden I'm getting these liquid errors. I'm like, I just what did keep so of course now I'm blaming Claude for screwing around with my code um because I'm checking that out. And then I'm going and I'm actually open up FetchXML toolbox to do a query, and then that's failing as well. I'm like, what's going on? Yeah, the one of the other developers on the project I'm working on actually deleted a Dataverse table or they refactored it. Didn't happen to tell me. So at least, at least when I found that out, I'm like, okay, at least I know I'm not having a stroke or anything, but it was also kind of like, ah, like literally, this was working five minutes ago. I changed one little thing in some file way off over there, and then all of a sudden things just not working. So um yeah.

Ulrikke:

Did you go back and apologize to Claude?

Nick:

Yes, I did, of course.

Ulrikke:

I love it. I love it. We personalize AI so much, it's so much fun.

Nick:

I know.

Ulrikke:

Sorry.

Nick:

Yeah.

Ulrikke:

Sorry, it wasn't you, it was me, it was my colleague. Explained it was really kind of gentlemen-y about it, going, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're good. And yeah, in true Nick style, this is kind of, yeah, this is Yeah.

Nick:

So, anyways, good. I mean, Charles and Josh have been putting out great videos on their journey and building code apps. Um, I saw that they've gotten over a thousand subscribers on their YouTube channel. So kudos guys for doing that. That's amazing. Um, I mean, I know that takes a bit of work and consistency. So keep these videos coming because they're the how they're how, you know, this this one that you mentioned, that was Charles by himself going through it. But a lot of times it's Charles and Josh kind of vibing off each other as they build through this stuff. And that makes watching YouTube uh videos very entertaining, uh, very engaging as well. So keep it up, guys.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, because their latest videos you saw. We built a power-up with one AI prompt, vibe coding with GitHub Copilot. Um, was one of the videos that you put in here, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ulrikke:

So yeah, very good joke, guys. And keep it going. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it's it's what they do, right? Because they're real. It it seems to me, I don't know them uh that well, but it seems to me that they're like they're just hitting the record button and then they just hackle it out. And I love it. It's perfect. It's real authentic, and it takes the time that it takes. Because more, like you said, you know, you want it to often we're scared, I'm scared that uh the error that I'm encountering is my own mistake. So I don't want to show the world through YouTube how stupid I am to forget that's semicolon or my colleague deleting that table or whatever it is, right? So but often more often than not, these things are also design mistakes. So, and this is what I keep telling if if I'm mentoring or uh doing upskilling or adoption work, often you um you talk to or train people who aren't that technically skilled, and they will blame themselves when actually it's poor design patterns, it's it's badly designed interfaces because if it had guided you to to make the right choice or to remember to do something or to check something, then you wouldn't make that mistake, right? It's the same thing I've been going over and over about with you know PowerPages designer that allows you and encourage you to choose between 30 different fonts on 10 different things. It's like, no, no, no, no. The design of the thing should guide you to follow best practices, not breaking them. In my view, that's bad design on Microsoft's part in the product. Um, so it's it's it's not always your fault, even though you made the mistake, right? That's kind of what I'm my long way of saying that.

Nick:

Um for sure. And then and then also I think it reiterates again, you know, you don't necessarily have to be a coder, but you do should have some fundamental understandings of how the power platform works, how Dataverse works, how certain things work, because you can't rely on AI even making the best decisions. It's again, sometimes working with a client, they don't know what to ask you, you don't know what to tell them. And I think that relationship can happen also with our the AI interfaces we're working with. We might not know exactly what we want to do. Um and so for us to prompt that appropriately sometimes becomes a little bit difficult. So there has to be a little bit of iteration back and forth. Um again, working on a project, and and you're you're gonna be like kind of surprised by this because it's part of partially I need to refactor things in Bootstrap five because it is a standard data model to enhance data model, and I'm trying to fix a few components because some of the classes have changed. And then Claude came back to me going, Oh, I see in a different part of your file you're using bootstrap three. So this is why your code's not working. It's all bootstrap five. So I went ahead and converted it all to bootstrap three. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Go the other way. What this bootstrap five, and like, what is this? So I literally typed in, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. Fix this. So um, but yeah. Yeah. Anyways, that all being said, this is yeah, maybe I should be recording some of my interactions with Claude.

Ulrikke:

Just I we're we we all got the same thing. I mean, I think that's the same one, right? Because we all we all get the same thing. Mine is so cheeky. I mean, sometimes I find myself laughing out loud in public of the things that chat GPT says to me because it's so cheeky. And I mean, they they they can't they tell you that it's kind of mimicking who you are and trying to give you what you need or what you want. And I'm like, it's nailing it. I'm just loving this interaction.

SPEAKER_02:

It's so cheeky. Oh, it's so much fun.

Ulrikke:

All right. So uh back to the list. Um, we talked about power apps, um, and also I saw something, just wanted to mention it really shortly because you said so power apps is kind of out the door, model driven apps are good, chemist apps maybe not so much. But then I saw someone called Ryan Ryan Johnston. He created a liquid glass effect for power apps, which was freaking fantastic. You can look at the LinkedIn post, it has a video of how it works and what it looks like. And of course, it's all vibe coded, right? Because you can really possibly do that by hand. But it's really cool to show even if it's so canvas apps is a bit dated, we don't know what's gonna happen with it, but you can with vibe coding, you can actually then create stuff still for Canvas apps that looks and feel pretty cool and pretty modern still. So it's kind of this um mix between old and new world, I I guess. So put a link to it in the show notes so you can see the cool effect.

Nick:

Of course, all the the liquid and the glass effect too. And of course, uh I I'm I know that you're an Android user, but for those of us iPhone users and Apple, of course, Apple rolled up their update like a about a month ago, and it's all this new glass imagery, liquidy type interface, which when I first looked at it, I'm like, ugh, I want to go back to the old one, but I got used to it pretty quick. But this sort of when I saw that, I'm like, oh, this is just kind of reflecting on what Apple's doing. And I guess it's all it's like it's interesting about how um UI kind of almost follows fashion trends, right? Like I guess the liquid, liquid, watery, glassy UI is sort of the new trend for 2026. I don't know. I'm just give me buttons to press, give me a flow to go.

Ulrikke:

So I don't know, but it's the but it's about it's the same thing as any fashion trend, right? It's or following the latest YouTube thing or the 67s or the you know brain rot thingies. It's about showing the world that you are up with the newest thing, and you know what we hear all the time is that yeah, I would love our SharePoint site, but could it not look like SharePoint? Or I want to have a PowerPages site, but could you please not look at make it look like PowerPages? Or you open up uh an old legacy business application built in the 90s, and people are going, actually, you know what? System is great. Can you just bring it into this modern day and age because it's awful to work with in terms of how clunky and old and and horrible it is? It has to do with the pleasure of interacting with the user interface, and we're all human, and when we interact with something that is pleasurable to interact with, we'll do it more. So, yeah, trend, uh, but also it has to do with that experience, and that I'm so happy to see that that actually translates into business applications because you know, back in the day you didn't really used to do that, so it's a good thing that we're actually able to do that now. And I think the threshold for that is much lower, and it has to do with um kind of user satisfaction, that's always what we're aiming for, right? So yeah, um and also we saw something else um for let me just go back up here. Um, something for um customer insights by uh Megan Walker because creating dynamic cascading drop downs with related entities. So she created a blog post to show and it's a little it's a little bit back to the kind of all old, old school way of hacking um a Canvas app where you have dependencies between drop-downs, and you can actually use that to filter and to cascade the choices that you make in one will affect the results you get in another, right? I read that right.

Nick:

Yeah, and it's it's it's basically it's not necessarily for customer insights and journeys, just you know, um code or uh custom pages in general, or even just regular Canvas apps as well. I know I just I I know I literally said 10 minutes ago Canvas apps was dying.

Ulrikke:

But um And then we have three news items for them. That's right. Canvas apps, yeah, yeah.

Nick:

I mean, there's still the thing is they're still gonna be with us for a while. And these are the types of problems. What I liked about this post, it kind of brought me back to the maybe it's a bit of nostalgia, but it's sort of like, yeah, these are the types of posts that you would do a search for, like, okay, I need to do a cascading drop-down list, and you would do a Google search, and you would come up with a blog post like this, and this would be one of these ones that kind of saved the day for you because someone has gone through the pain of figuring it all out, giving you the code, exactly how they did it, screenshots, the whole bit. I mean, Megan's amazing at putting all of this stuff together. And to me, it was just like, yeah, this is a this is a great post. It's still very relevant because we are, you know, of course, there's the agentic aid, you know, agents and co-pilots and everything that's kind of coming down that's beginning to infiltrate our day-to-day work. But I don't know about you, but my day-to-day work is still old school building apps, getting stuff to figure out, getting user interfaces sorted out, you know, addressing customers' requirements for exactly things like this. Um so it's a really good kind of breakdown. So if you're uh building something, you need that cascading drop-down list. Megan goes through, and she has a whole like Megan's a machine at putting out content. So check that out, plus her other content. There's so many great little tips and tricks here. If you are kind of building things in custom pages uh within your model-driven apps, um, there's just a ton of content that's absolutely gold here. So thanks, Megan, for doing that. And yeah, just again, keep for the community at whole, don't always look at the shiny new things. If there's something you're coming up, if you're solving a problem in your day-to-day, chances are hundreds of us are also needing to solve that problem. So keep that content coming. And like you said, like a last week or two weeks ago, we need this fresh content to feed into the AI machine. So it's not all AI generated, it's human stuff going in, keeping it fresh, keeping it um uh unique and very helpful.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I um yeah, I also love to see when people bring this into video format, the way that um Eliza and Claudio did on the PowerAtts reimagine human and agent collaboration. Um, what do you want to tell us a little bit more about that?

Nick:

Yeah, so this was uh this was part of the low-code revolution uh videos that um the the advocates team put out. And um Eliza and Claudio, two of my favorite people for two of one of two of not my fate, well, they are favorite people from Microsoft. I don't want to start ranking people. If I start ranking people, favorite of Microsoft, no, anyways. Um I worked with Claudio when I was at Microsoft. Of course, we all know Eliza really well. I collaborated with her last year in Las Vegas on some sessions, and uh we've been buddies for years. And just seeing the two of them talk about this stuff is pretty exciting. So basically, Claudio is um program manager in a group where he's showing model-driven apps, the same that we've been working with, you know, day in and day out for years, but showing the agent feed. So, what is the agent doing? Integrating the agents into your model-driven app, having that side panel for the Microsoft 365 agent using the Power Apps MCP server. So beginning to take, I what I see happening here, and I mentioned this before, is this is how AI is going to begin to infiltrate the day to day projects we're doing. Is all of a sudden we're now having things like the form filler, the uh the agent feed. We have these other agents coming through from Microsoft 365. Are we able to go into our Microsoft 365 co pilot like the The paid one, the work one, and begin to influence stuff into Dataverse, which is amazing. So we're getting more and more a single user interface, but even within the model-driven app, be able to see what the agent is doing. So it's almost like the agents are other coworkers working with you as you go through, and yet still keeping the human in the loop so we can review what the agent is doing. And if it's stuck on something, you can go through and unstick it to keep that whole flow of work going. Yet, and then also kind of doing things like translations, um, you know, data collection, form filling, all of these things built within the context of apps that we've been working with for years. So this um I believe is going to be at a public preview pretty soon that Claudio was showing. So I'm pretty excited to see that when that kind of rolls out and begin to, and I think this is gonna be sometimes the inflection point for a lot of people that have been not holding off on um on like agents and apps, but sort of going, I'm too busy in the weeds of my own projects right now that I'm kind of ignoring this. But now things are beginning to creep in, like the form filler, for example, the AI row summary. Um, I did some training for a client a couple months ago, and they're like, no, we're not quite ready for AI yet. We still need to look at the basics, but I showed them the AI row summary and they're like, we're turning that on right away because this it provides immediate value. So this is the kind of side door way of how a lot of this new technology is going to help us out and move forward. So check out that video, see what Claudio is demoing. Um, it's pretty exciting stuff. And then pretty soon it's going to be in everybody's hands uh in a public preview that they can begin to try the stuff out for themselves. And of course, I think already I have a couple of ways I can prove some existing clients' um usage of their power apps based on this new stuff. So this is pretty exciting.

unknown:

Yeah.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, very exciting. Um, and also I've seen uh some other news in terms of kind of transitioning a bit over to the Copa Studio side of things. You can now also copy an agent that you started off building in AI Builder, used to be AL Builder, used to be Copeless Studio Lite, and is now AI Builder again, over to Copa Studio. So if you started off, like you said, and in one of the in in AI Builder with your Microsoft 365 co-pilot stuff, you can now copy that over and continue working on it and and enhance and enterprise grade it through Copa Studio. It also enhances kind of the or brings back the citizen dev approach, I think. Um so if one of your colleagues or someone in your team made an agent that works well for them, this is a way to actually then lift that up and take bring that into a more governed environment where anyone can can use it and and make sure you have all the security and guardrails in place and and all the all the security stuff, but then actually enable other users to to use it as well. So yeah, that's a really good good new enhancement to see.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome.

Nick:

Cool. Um power the power pages. What how about so yeah?

Ulrikke:

Yeah, Call Dio used to work in no no no, it's uh in the PowerPages theme. And there's a few announcements for PowerPages. There's a few things in here for PowerPages as well. So first of all, you have the new client API, which is in preview, native client-side library performance and data. So this is kind of tying into the server-side law um server-side, help me out, server-side logic. No.

Nick:

The server yes and no. It the server-side logic is a separate thing than this, but I know you're not going to be able to do that.

Ulrikke:

No, no, but it ties into the story because now what we've had is we've had um so a couple of years back, and this is just because we're we're kind of in this space, um, they heavily invested in the designer. And then we had a few years of the heavily invested in the developer. You got Mr. Studio Code in the browser, we're just doing code extension. And in the last few years, we've seen a lot of investments for the um developer and power pages. And with all of the other new things coming, this ties into that very well. Well, you can free yourself from the traditional forms and lists and stuff using the new pages um uh syntax, not syntax, but um, yeah, the pages object. Yeah, object, right. So because I'm not you know developer first, this is a little bit alien to me. And I think this is one of the things that is very high on my list to start looking into. So what they uh kind of talk about in the release note is more about forms and control manipulation. You can set values, usability, and disable state controls without accessing IT attributes. You can um you have native controls like go to next step or go to previous step if you have a multi-step kind of wizard multi-step form. Um it simplifies the web API connections in a way, it looks, because you have the pages.web API, um, which you can then uh wrap Dataverse calls in. So you have full crowd for that. Uh, and then user and session management. Um, so you can trigger the pages.user.signed in or sign in or sign out and stuff like that. So this is really cool. And I like to see this investment and where it's going. Uh, and I can't wait to see what else they're gonna tie into this. So um super exciting.

Nick:

Yeah. So we're gonna Yeah, it's good because a lot of times I I know working on PowerPages projects, I'm sure you've run into this too, where well, we've set up business rules or we have JavaScript on our model-driven forums. How come that's not working on our PowerPages site for hiding and showing sections and that kind of thing? Well, then you have to actually go in and do JavaScript, which is DOM manipulation, which I mean it's kind of supported, but it's kind of hacky a little bit. So this way kind of makes it a much more supported, cleaner way to do that in terms of that forum and list navigation, um, plus a few extra things like you were talking about, the model-driven, uh, the multi-step form, which has always been a bit of a clunky thing. Um, but also the the you know uh the the simplified web API. To me, the web API was like one of the biggest things they brought to PowerPages a couple years ago. You still have to do quite a bit of code to get you know the helper file and all this. This simplifies this a tremendous amount, making that a lot easier. And then also things like you know, session management, getting a user to log in and log out, uh, little things like that. So this is just gonna make PowerPages development again so much more um allow you to address those features that clients are always asking for that if they're building on other web platforms are almost kind of inherent. Um so yeah, good. I mean, this is exciting stuff. I can't wait for this to be GA because already I I want this for projects I'm working on now.

Ulrikke:

Yeah. But also it's a bit interesting to see that they choose to enable developers to do this, but we've been asking for this in the UI for ages and ages, right? Because like as you as you mentioned, the hiding and showing of forms and conditional formatting on forms is always a request. And why can't we do that through the designer and the UI? And the and the answer is always, well, you can do it with JavaScript, it's documented, and like you said, it's a bit of a hack. And then people go, well, I thought it was a low-code product. It's like, well, and then you get into the discussion, Miss JavaScript really code. I mean, it's just you copy and paste from the thing, but it really is. And and it's interesting to see that they don't invest in it on the kind of the user, the designer path um first, because that was what I would expect them to do. Um, so yeah, it's uh maybe showing a new path forward.

Nick:

Yeah, and maybe I think maybe why you're seeing a bit of a a pause on the I mean, this is just speculating, I have no idea, but why you're thinking seeing a bit of a pause in the designer side is because we are moving more into these, I don't want to say like the the vibe coding is going to take over the the designer thing. I still think there's a there's a there's a market or there's a need for having a good user interface to design layouts and all that kind of thing, but that could be why to see how that will evolve and where that's going. And to the point where I think, because already I have a few ideas as well, if the APIs and the code is there, then is that going to empower people to vibe code their own designers how they want them to be? Um, I know that's a bit far-fetched, but if you know, considering how things are going, yeah, maybe I don't want to use the PowerPages designer, but maybe I could vibe code my own designer that I could use as myself as a maker or give to other makers that fits exactly how I work or what my flow is. That's just maybe a crazy idea on my part, but that could be why of maybe let's get the back end working, let's get the APIs there, let's get the libraries there, and then you know, get those interfaces come later. Just a thought.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, yeah. And we can only speculate uh where this is going. Um but I also see a bit of a and it's sad because I'm a UX person and I love seeing crazy designs and of course being kind of brought up in the 90s, it's that what fun web was fun back then, and now everything looks like lovable. I can spot a lovable design from miles and miles away, and it all looks the same. So of course, but the the pixel perfect and the moving stuff around days are way behind us, and no one's gonna care anymore, I think. So it's more about, you know, design me this beautiful site that has these things and enables to do this and that. I see this as uh an enablement for for development going forward and kind of bridging the gap between what power pages used to be and what it can be in the future. So I see these kind of these nudges in the right direction. Uh, and I love to see that direction. And there is no other direction to go in. And I can't wait to see what where this is going to bring us because I think PowerPages as a product has a lot of possible, it has a big potential, and there's a need in the platform because you can't really interact, have end customers outside of your organization interact with your dataverse data any other way. And so yeah, I uh I'm really excited to see where they're going with this.

Nick:

And and Defen, and I know we touched on this before, and I do want to kind of bring this up in terms of use cases of internal users being able to use PowerPages as a conduit into Dataverse. Um, we had a comment on our LinkedIn, um, our LinkedIn section about uh, you know, someone who had a use case where they wanted to use Dataverse, they needed it, but of course the the users would only log into the app maybe once a quarter, if that. So they couldn't justify getting Power Apps licenses. And I thought, well, this could be a case of using a PowerPages because in terms of the licensing cost, depending on your volume, for internal users could be a lot lower. And we talked about this, I think, last fall with Franco and Sean talking about power pages as an alternative for internal applications. So again, it always depends on your situation. But this is also just remember, folks, if you run into a, well, we have to use SharePointless because it's a cheaper option. Um, no, you can use Dataverse depending on what you need to do. Um, Power Pages could be a viable alternative, especially now with some of these, even like single page applications in PowerPages could be a viable alternative to Power Apps for those very low usage or those. I just need to fill out an HR form once a quarter or half a year, or doing even an expense report every so often kind of things. These scenarios, PowerPages could work very well for. So, anyways, that's just we're down another little rabbit hole, but here we go. This is what we do.

Ulrikke:

Here we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and it's so true. And now also, I mean, with uh AI and uh co-pilots and chats and everything, it's kind of it's becoming uh even more complicated to make good decisions in terms of what kind of AI capability you want to use within these different apps, right? So you can have um uh, you know uh AI chats in model-driven apps or in Canvas apps or in PowerPages and all over the place. And of course, if you use those tokens then and you authenticate through them, then it's gonna also add a licensing cost. So it's all kind of in the mix. So then there's certainly, certainly there's this new layer of licensing. You have to apply it to everything, because it does apply it to everything. And so, yeah, it becomes even more complex. But I'm not a licensing expert, so I'll just leave it.

Nick:

Nobody is, except for you. But anyways, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ulrikke:

Of course, except for you. Right. So um another thing with um related to PowerPages that I saw this week was a blog post from the PowerCat team or the Cat team as it's called now, um, on how to embed a web chat without writing a single line of JavaScript, uh, which is really cool. So you have the uh ability now to use um bot framework web chat, and you can add that into your website without using anything other than HTML. And I love seeing this as a this is a very easy implementation. There's a code here, and you just kind of replace this URL with your URL and your token endpoint, and then you have the kind of the chat up and running. And also you can uh customize it a little bit using um CSS, and of course you can add JavaScript to uh fill with it as well if you want to, but that's kind of optional. You can change the appearance a little bit, and then you can actually have that on your site. And this is applicable to PowerPages. Now, caveat here is it's not authenticated. So if you wanted to use this, it's over anonymous use only. And if you wanted to embed a power, a can an agent on a PowerPages site and then you want it authenticated, either you can go the custom route, um, the way that they've done here. And but then you have to build your own authentication for that, or you can use PowerPages um co-pilot agent that is comes with the product, uh, because that is already set up. So you can just configure uh configuration in the in the um the agent or the chat and then off you go.

Nick:

Yeah. And I think I saw this and I'm like right away like, okay, I need to send this to a couple clients that are kind of struggling with this. But then yeah, the authentication, even on the PowerPages side, I know that's not as straight and clear as it's supposed to be either. Um, but that's uh I think a discussion for another day uh before we go down to so yeah, but also it's good to know that you have the uh the ability to do that.

Ulrikke:

So for instance, uh scenarios like um uh applying for courses or for universities to allow their students to browse through and give find courses to take or things to sign up for or after school programs where you have a variety of things you can just uh give it a prompt to say what do you like to do and how it works, and it can give you suggestions, things like that, things that doesn't require you to log in, not sensitive information, but where users usually have to filter through a lot of dense information. Then this is a very good this is a very good use case for something like that. So um definitely has its uh use cases and and um uh yeah where it's applicable.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Cool.

Ulrikke:

Right. Okay, so there's a few more things I wanted to go through, and I'm trying to kind of um categorize them a little bit as we go along. So now we're kind of venturing into um kind of dataverse governance type of things, um, where I saw this uh article of how you can now check your power platform solutions for secrets with Pester and PowerShell. Do you know Pester?

Nick:

I don't. This is a this is a new thing for me too.

Ulrikke:

Yeah. So to use Pester, you can create a test file in your repository, and then they have a JSON or kind of a structure like that. Uh no, sorry, um, yeah. Um, and then you can have an unmanaged version of this of the structure, and then you can give it some parameters and then things to look for, and then it's gonna run through and look for vulnerabilities in your solu solution. So for for kind of getting out secrets. And I know uh yeah, you hear you hear horror stories about developers that kind of put secrets in code and configure files, and then you know, suddenly it's on the great wide web and you know, with all the vibe coding and stuff learning on stuff, and yeah. So it's a good thing to maybe have this in your um uh your one of your checks. Now you can write PowerShell to do it, so it becomes a bit simpler. Um and also I found this article on because I know you've heard this before, right? We talked about this before in the podcast. Now that we have vibe coding, and why would you bother with PowerPlatform when you can just vibe code a business application and apply, you know, present it to Azure and then you know, off off you go. Why what is this the selling point? It's the value add from then. And the the value add for Power Platform is the same in the world of wipe coding as it has always been, and it is about creating a secure environment for developers to work in. So it low code doesn't necessarily mean low security, is kind of the first top um headline of this article. And it is very true because out of the box you have the safe space. And when I talk to customers about PowerPlatform, that's always the first and foremost front and center things we talk about. Is you have such a you have safety by default, and especially now in AI days, that is very important and top of mind for a lot of customers. Um, and also the governance and how you have such so much insight into what's going on just out of the box. And PPAC has become fantastic, phenomenal, and application insights on top of that for performance, and then you know, have all your governance and COE and stuff in place. I mean, it's so good what you can do, and also it's scalable. So, I mean, it's a good article. I think it's a convince your customer type article for us who have a lot of customer interactions. Um, if you need more, more of a convince your customer type of thing. So for those of us who are who are interacting a lot with customers and have these conversations often, both with colleagues and with other architects and with customers, it's a good thing and it was a good reminder of why we use this platform to begin with. Um, because it's yeah, absolutely true that it is it has to do with uh the secure environment.

Nick:

Absolutely. Yeah, because you you'll get the well, I could just five-code this using what you said before, lovable or replit or all of these other ones. And yeah, sure, but where's your security? How are you gonna lock it down? And there's so much reporting and things like this. And this is a great article um by Joe and Josh, Joe and Justin. Um, yeah, it again bookmarked, bookmark this when you're talking to customers about Power Platform and why and the whys. This is a big why is security, because the last thing you want is um your data and stuff to be out there in the wild um on some vibe coded app with secrets and things like that in your in your GitHub, your public GitHub repository and all of these things. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

Nick:

Um it's interesting. You talk about security and things like that. Um I didn't get a chance to see this, but I know Chris and Victor part uh Victor has his agents acad or his agents AI thing um running now. Um about so you want to talk about a little bit that that session because again, Chris Huntingford is always the one screaming at us learn purview, um, you know, responsible AI and everything like this.

Ulrikke:

Yeah. This is another one to bookmark for sure. And I I just love the interactions between you know Chris and the audience, because it's obvious that he's kind of planned out a few of these little things where he asked the audience. And it's rare to see um kind of a bed in our setting like this, where you actually get to interact with people. And Chris does this in such a good way, and he is very entertaining just being Chris, but also he's very engaging and the content is really good. So definitely if you are looking into the frontier framework, this is one to watch. And and not just because you get to see what this is all about, but he takes you through the maturity journey from the very beginning. What is an agent? What is context and why is it so important? He goes through all the mechanisms of the prompts and the the skills and the it's so dense and it's so light at the same time. So, Chris, very well done. This is amazing, and I encourage anyone to watch this um and and to go back and see that because uh it's very good.

SPEAKER_02:

Cool.

Ulrikke:

And then next off, I also wanted to mention a little quick thing about governance, because now you can, and this is actually something that I discovered uh prepping for my session at Tallinn. Um, because I did a session on uh pipe power platform pipelines done right because as our listeners know very well. We have been battling with pipelines in a customer project for some time. And I thought I would share kind of the battle stories and also what we figured out how to do it and how to set it up right. So it's yes, it is a happy path and the la la land version of pipelines. And in doing the research, I discovered that they now released something new, which we had which which we needed when we were in that customer project. Because when you use pipelines, an environment can only be either a source or a destination. Meaning if you have dev and you want to push manage your it's unmanaged in dev, you want to push it manage to test and then to production, etc. etc. You can't really move in anything into that. So if you have your dev dev, which you should have, and lots of them to play around, sandbox, just experimenting with things, you can't really just take a solution from there and import it into dev unmanaged. But now you can. You can import unmanaged solutions in through pipelines, which is new capability that is actually very handy. And so there's a few, uh, there was a LinkedIn post and someone kind of commented, well, what managed unmanaged changes? Why would you what's the use case for the unmanaged and managed police came out? And it was a very fun conversation to watch because from the face of it, I understand that people that kind of work with, you know, small size business application don't have a lot of customizations. With like, ooh, we kind of stepped back from the unmanaged stuff a while ago. Don't, ooh, what's this? But it's actually enabling uh good A-L instructure and development patterns that match what the real world is like and development patterns outside of the platform as well. So I love to see that, which is really cool.

Nick:

Yeah. And I think just any in terms of even um repopulating or hydrating um developer environments. So the idea if you could begin to work towards segmenting out, like, okay, I need to work on a specific branch of this, or we need to fix a particular bug, but we're still doing development on another branch or another environment, those types of things. So this makes it so much easier so you're not exporting and importing that unmanaged solution into another dev environment to fix something up or something like that. So again, still a bit of planning involved in this, but that's how I see this being very helpful that you're not back to the file import, export, all that kind of fun stuff. You can actually use the tools there.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, let's try to get away from that. Absolutely. Uh, and then I also saw something that uh piqued my interest. Um, an article by oh, I have practiced. Nitasha Copra. Uh, I hope that's right. Uh the six six pillars that will define agent readiness in two's house in 26, which is um so I have a colleague who works uh in Azure and he is teaching me a lot of the new things that come out with kind of a thought leadership around AI, and this is matching very a lot of what he's saying. Um so these are kind of six pillars that will help you define how to work towards agent readiness. Um, so they mentioned kind of ability for anyone to turn intent into agent, so it's uh natural language, like you said um earlier, right? The the um making of the agent is not a developer task, it is a natural language type of task, a vibe-coded type of task, if you want. Um and an agents that can own workflows end-to-end. And also we see less human in the loop. The idea that if you have an agent and it works autonomously and it can and it can do a workflow end-to-end, and you've seen it do that successfully a number of times, then you can start trusting that it can do that job for itself and you don't need the human in the loop anymore. That's kind of what we see for 2026. Um, and this the third pillar, uh power to coordinate agents for real outcomes, uh, and then also flexibility to control your agent models, which we because now new models come in and it used to be open AI, now it's anthropic, now, and then suddenly, you know, um the Google one is leading the pack, and then it's all over the place and it's week by week. So you need to be able to flip the models more dynamically than we might have thought.

Nick:

I need an agent that sends me an email every Monday morning. Today's most popular or best the best model to use this week is this one.

Ulrikke:

And actually, because there's such a such a big difference uh between the models, because I see people trying to citate and tell kind of, yeah. So this work was uh enhanced by uh chat dbt. I'm like, well, that doesn't really help us much because you know, or call code, it's like, yeah, but which model? That's the that's what you need. If you want to gonna cite anything or or give a reference to anything, you need to reference the model because that's kind of where yeah, where that that comes from. That uh yeah, yeah. Um and and also agents that can access across your systems. Tools we're gonna the skills, sorry, not tools, skills, uh, is gonna be incredibly important in 2026. Um, and also the capability to scale agents without sacrificing control, the aid, the agent swarms, the independent working agent that does the end-to-end workflow without you in the loop, the one you trust, you have 10 of these and you have a management agent that kind of controls them all. That is scalable. But you vibecoding one-to-one with an agent on your code and checking every time it asks you a question, you have to tell yes or no. That is not scalable. So scaling is also very, very important in 2026. And it's uh very interesting to see.

Nick:

Yeah, just a lot it's going so fast, all of this stuff. Um, but yeah, it's it's it's good. I mean, it's it's it's um, I think we're all trying to struggle to keep up on some of this stuff too. Um this is something we've talked about probably every episode for the last year, um, is keeping up. Um uh but again, these are these are the types of articles. At least you can awareness to me is always sort of the the thing to is always the first key to accomplishing anything. So yeah, hopefully this article is really good. It kind of eye-opening on a few things. Um you know, again, like agents that can run a workflow end-in without you checking in on it. To me, it's like it it does trigger me a little bit because it we even think about power automate flows. How many times have we we're fully trusting the power automate flow running on a schedule is working, only to discover sometimes that it's not? And what are the parameters and the things that the governance we built into that to indicate if something has failed? So we also need like with the agents, if they fail or they're kind of going off. And this is why I see things like the um what Microsoft announced at Ignite, the agent 365 um thing to have these tools to, you know, yeah, let them run and do their own thing, but keep an eye on things as well. Um we talk about governance and security, that they're they're not kind of going off and and and doing things incorrectly or or if they're running fine, that's cool too. That's good to know. Green light. Um so yeah, good uh very interesting article, very thought-provoking. Um thanks for putting it in the notes.

Ulrikke:

I think it has to do with trust as well, right? As much as you because I work a lot with juniors, right? We onboard new people into my into my team, and I you know, you start simple and you give them simple tasks and you check in often. And then they build your trust because they can solve the things. And actually, they go above and beyond and you think, oh, they're ready for a new challenge, right? Let me try this. And then they cut and you check in and then they come back. And it's iterative. And as we talked about, the models changed off change often. And so if you have a dynamically, you have uh an agent that is uh autonomous and has ownership of one workflow end-to-end, and that is based on one model. As soon as you change the model, the data changes, security changes, test changes, the environment changes, anything changes. You have to check in with it to make sure that it's running correctly. And as you said, that's when governance is so important. That's when insight is so important, that's when error handling and testing and all these things come into play. And if anything, I mean, scared people are scared their jobs are gonna be away. I mean, agent manager. I'm just putting it out there as a new job title. Fucking agent manager. I mean, someone's gonna have to have the job to to look after these agents and to follow up and to check in and to it's like managing juniors in a way, until they build build the trust that, yeah, I know how to do this job. We talked about the the the monkey work, right? I know, I'm the monkey, I got the wrench, I know my task, and it's just plugging away at the thing, and you build confidence that it can do it, and it will also report back to you if it can't, if something goes wrong. It has to do with trust. And it's weird that we're building trust with these machines or models or algorithms or call it what you want. But I think that is something that we as humans need to go on board in a way. And I get your reluctance. It's very much like, well, do I interest it? And I think all of us have different thresholds with this, right? Because I'm so lazy. If you can do something for me, I'm like, yeah, go out. I forget to check, and it's like, well, if it's doing its thing, I'm happy. But yeah. So another thing that my colleague also touched on was skills, right? So we had a we have a tech talk at my company at Etera every Friday after lunch, half an hour. And last Friday, uh Martin, his name is, talked about agent swarming and also the the loop. Uh, there's a uh Simpsons character, the um um uh the autistic one, the little guy with the little weird one. It they they renamed the loop after him. I can't remember what his name is. But Ralph, it's the I guess. Yeah, yeah, I think that's it. What's his last name? I do not know.

SPEAKER_02:

Ralph Wigum?

Ulrikke:

Or yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the one. That's the one.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah.

Ulrikke:

I'm just I'm just it's I probably said a million things that are very you're not supposed to say it's not really quick collection.

Nick:

Oh, the Simpsis character, Ralph Wiggum, like yeah.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, yeah, no, but it's it's uh I because it's and you've heard me say this, say this before, and you can't really say these things out loud, but I I I do because I'm me. It's an agent should be in a way a little bit autistic. It shouldn't know about and be good at everything. It should have his little special or her it's it's special focus and be very good at that. And you what you do is you build guardrails around it with context, and then you give it specific skills. The prompting is less and less important. It's the skills and the context that creates the the the guardrails around it. And the way that the loop works is that now you give it the ability to write back into its own repository. So it will go off. You give it a task, it goes off, it does its thing, then it goes, it surfaces, and then it checks its work, and then it goes, ah, this isn't good enough. It edits its own guardrails and the context and the content, drops the chat or the the session, starts a new one and it does that and it iterates and iterates and iterates until it's happy with the outcome, then it exits. It exits the loop. This is the autonomous version, and this is what so I saw, and I'm gonna put the link in here. I saw a video from Scott Henselman in the car talking about this the other day, because you have the this loop is making people think that agents suddenly have consciousness because they can edit their own context and they can learn from their previous loops and enhance. And and so now people are Jarvis is Jarvis is here, right? Yeah and they can deduce, they can check, they have access to different tools, they can go off and it's like, well, it's it now has the ability. So if you have an agent and it has this loop, you can ask it to say, uh, because he uses the example, he's uh diabetic, so he has a uh a sensor on his arm and it's uh sending signals to the cloud and you can check on a website um that his blood sugar levels. And now he can tell this agent go off and give me that, read that value. And then she'll go back and say, it it googles how to connect to the what what that is. So it asks, okay, what type is it? Oh it's this service, right? It goes to check the requirements. Okay, I need a web API, um, endpoint and a key. Here you go. It creates the code and it runs the git command to connect to the API with his token and gives him back the result. It now has the capacity because it can edit itself in the loop and and add skills to itself to do that. That is what makes people freak out because suddenly you go, Oh, what can it not do? And you add voice to that. Maybe it also gives the example where you went, by any means necessary, give me a reservation at this restaurant. What will it do? And where will it start? Will it access a spe uh text-to-speech service and then connect a cello and dial the number at the restaurant and call on your behalf and edit your voice and make the reservation? Guardrails, guardrails, guardrails, guardrails, the context, the guardrails. It's never been more important. And and this is a very long way of saying, and I'm so happy I have this channel to talk about this because it's so important. In uh Microsoft has now um this site which on GitHub called Microsoft-Skills, where they have a collection of skills, MCP servers, custom agents, agent MDs, the MD files for agents, SDK ground coding agent. It's a library of resources that you can tap into where you can share context, you can share guardrails. What do you your what does your base prompt look like? What does your instructions look like? What does your context look like? And then we can learn from each other, we can pull in from one another. Because you said it just a few minutes ago. Where do I start if I'm muted this, if I haven't tapped into it yet? Am I gonna how do you even begin? This is where you share, you learn from others, and you develop your own. And I think this is gonna be the IP going forward is how do you create efficient, smart, and appropriate guardrails that work? Um, and so I'm gonna put the links to that in the show notes. And also that's a good segue over to Damien's new project, which is kind of in the same space.

Nick:

Yeah. Yeah. Damien started a he started a school. Now, school is a platform for doing um for for building communities and stuff like that. Of course, Damien has an amazing YouTube channel. Um, it's been going for quite a while. Like if you've not seen his YouTube channel, check that out because he puts on amazing videos around power platform and flow, power automate and everything like that. But now he's brought this into a community. It's currently free. I've signed up this morning, um, 208 members, but by the time uh we probably look at this in a few weeks, it's definitely going to increase. Um, and it's a great way. What I like about this is it takes um it's again, it's a it's a community for sharing and learning together. Like he said, you know, he's he's learning himself. Um, but he's still a he's a great guy to talk to. He's always very knowledgeable. Um and then basically for this with a group, yes, there's the YouTube channel, but within the group, then it becomes a much more we're learning together from people that real people, I guess you could say, as opposed to the wild west of the internet frontier on YouTube. Um so definitely check that out. It's a it is a private group. You do need to sign up, um, but it is free. Um and it's about you know the kind of learning agents and flows. He has what three videos, four videos, three videos already. Um, of course, his videos are awesome.

Ulrikke:

Uh, but yeah, it's a these are full full they workshops as well, right? So that's kind of the video is as a walkthrough, and then he has his full tutorial on how to do it. That's kind of the where the menu is, right?

Nick:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, so yeah, and we see a few of these communities uh kind of popping up or whatever, and they're great. Uh it's a great way to I guess I uh establish some safe spaces for learning as well, um, as opposed to you know just commenting on a YouTube channel or you know, asking a question there. If it's there, then the community can answer and you can collaborate on things. Um and it's it's what I like about the school platform as well, it's kind of structured in terms of threads and information and ability to upload files. Like, yeah, I know there's a lot of WhatsApp groups out there, but they're very linear. And if you miss a day, you're 500 messages behind kind of thing. So um yeah, thanks Damien for creating that. And um I'm very much looking forward to diving in and checking it out further.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I signed up in a few, a few um uh last week, I think. And also in the start of the episode, I w I uh looked at it and it was 206, so it's now 208. It's growing very quickly. So I would recommend to get in while you can while it's free. Uh and also I'm thinking it there's a lot of independent consultants now in platform space and see more and more people going independent. And of course, this is a great way. So when I have my colleagues in the Tac Talk every Friday, if you're an independent, you maybe you don't have that network. This is a very good way of meeting peers and actually collaborating together and sharing links like this and and other resources we we pull together as a community. So we really love that. And uh, Damien, I can't wait to dive in to your stuff. And speaking about tutorials, by the way, next time I'm gonna see you is in just a month and a week. No, I'm gonna see you in in Vancouver before that. But the next time we're doing some content together, I mean, is uh tutorial, full-day tutorial on the Agent Academy Recruiter. Yes. Uh at Color Cloud in Hamburg, and it's 15th to 16th of April. Make sure to sign up before it's full, because I expect this will fill up so quickly. And also we have Canadian Power Platform Summit before that, uh, which we're really excited to be part of. How do you feel? How's the cortisol levels? Are you okay?

Nick:

Oh, yeah, no, that that's actually well, it was, it wasn't, but I don't I know we we kind of we uh we had a few little uh logistic things around the hotel that came up this morning I need to sort out um with her speakers and everything, but that's okay, easily managed. Um but yeah, our numbers are good. Like right now, I like we have some tickets left, but if you're planning to come to Vancouver, get on it because we will we are heading towards a sellout, and then we, you know, um, and then the other thing, if I can kindly ask, if you have the ticket, but your plans change, please go in and cancel your ticket. Um, so that gives someone else the opportunity to step in. Um, we have workshops as well. There's four different workshops um on uh co-pilots uh on ALM on uh designing beautiful apps uh certifications. So there's a lot of good educational content happening the day before. The Dynamics User Group, shout out to them. We're also running an event the day before. So if you're more of a business central um dynamics CE type person, um there's content there for you. Um and so it's gonna be a great uh kickoff to MVP Summit, which we really can't talk too, too much about, except all MVPs will be converging on Redmond and seeing all the new party bus. Uh okay, you're are you taking the party bus?

Ulrikke:

No, no, no, no, no. Sean asked me, and I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm gonna train on the way from Vancouver to see.

Nick:

There you go. Cool.

Ulrikke:

On the slowest train in the world.

Nick:

So yeah, so we have that. Uh you mentioned Color Cloud as well. Um, I'll be at Dynamics Minds, have a couple sessions there. Um, I'm trying, so yeah, a side conversation. World World Bench Press Championships are literally happening the same time and a little bit few days after. So I gotta figure all that out.

Ulrikke:

Um after Dynamics Minds?

Nick:

Uh so the the classic uh I'm gonna the classic bench is actually happening the same time. It's the equip that's happening right after. So I gotta just we'll see. That's future next problem. And then um your European Power Platform conference, of course, is happening in Copenhagen, uh, which uh yeah, we'll talk more about next time for sure, because it's a lot of exciting news and stuff happening there. And then hopefully a little bit of a break for the summer. And then of course fall's gonna kick off again with probably a bazillion events and things going on. So yeah, fun times. And then our next episode will be February 25th in two weeks.

Ulrikke:

It absolutely will. And let me just uh say before we go that uh make sure I wanted to mention that the dates for ABBC has changed. So if you thought it was gonna be in the beginning of June, it's now gonna be the end of June. So it's gonna be 29th, June 29th until July 2nd. So uh we're gonna put all of this in the show notes, of course.

Nick:

So I'm gonna be celebrating Canada Day in Denmark.

Ulrikke:

So what better time to do it?

Nick:

Yes. Yeah, well the Denmark's flag is red and white, so it will all I'll fit right in. It's fine.

Ulrikke:

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, I'm looking forward to it. It's gonna be fantastic to travel the world with you this spring as well. I can't wait. Yes. All right, everyone, take care and uh we'll catch you next time. See ya. Bye bye.

Nick:

Thank you for listening. If you like this episode, please make sure you share it with your friends and colleagues in the community. And be sure to leave a rating and or a review on your favorite streaming service. That makes it easier for others to find us. Follow us on social platforms and make sure you don't miss a single episode. Thank you for listening to the Power Platform Boost Podcasts with your hosts, Lorica Ackerbeck and Nick Dolman. See you next time for your timely boost of Power Platform news and updates.

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